John 8 – The Terror of Arguing With God

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This morning, I was listening to my CD’s of James Earl Jones reading the New Testament, (an experience in and of itself) and I was struck by the dispute the Pharisees were having with Jesus.  As I listened closely, I noticed that everything the Pharisees were in dispute with Jesus with was logical.  Everything they pointed out against Jesus made perfect sense.  On the surface it really DOES seem that Jesus is a cracked pot, a crazy demon possessed person, a bad liar.

That’s what’s so scary and strange.  That we can miss Jesus with him right in our presence because he doesn’t make sense at first blush.  That Jesus appears to be some random person strolling up and saying all kinds of ridiculous things about himself.  Jesus presents himself to us in a way that doesn’t connect with our reasoning abilities.  He is beyond our mental capacities and he compels us to trust him outside of our ability to reason.  He even expects us to counter our reasoning abilities.  And for most of us, how do we do that?  Everyday life is full of situations where we have to use our reasoning abilities just to survive.  If we are good reasoners, we may even thrive and create something good for ourselves.  It’s how we live in peace with our neighbors and the world – how well we are able to reason.  But God requires us to turn off our reasoning when we deal with him and just believe.  How many people can step outside of our highest faculty and just hang there, trying to relate to what looks like complete crazy?

For this reason, I can relate to the Pharisees.  I can understand how Jesus looked like a madman to them based on all that he was telling them.  But to not be able, or to refuse to step outside of our reasoning capacity will definitely cause you to lose Jesus.  Based on what I know he has done for me, how he has calmed my mind of its rampant fears, the thought of not having Jesus is terrifying.

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JOHN 8

Dispute Over Jesus’ Testimony

12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am   the light of the world.   Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

13 The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”

14 Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going.   But you have no idea where I come from   or where I am going. 15 You judge by human standards;   I pass judgment on no one. 16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

19 Then they asked him, “Where is your father?”

“You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.” 20 He spoke these words while teaching   in the temple courts near the place where the offerings were put.   Yet no one seized him, because his hour had not yet come.

Dispute Over Who Jesus Is

21 Once more Jesus said to them, “I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die   in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.”

22 This made the Jews ask, “Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, ‘Where I go, you cannot come’?”

23 But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he,   you will indeed die in your sins.”

25 “Who are you?” they asked.

“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied. 26 “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy,   and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”

27 They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up[a] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone,   for I always do what pleases him.” 30 Even as he spoke, many believed in him.

Dispute Over Whose Children Jesus’ Opponents Are

31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching,   you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants   and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free,   you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me,   because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence,   and you are doing what you have heard from your father.[b]

39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[c] do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me,   a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.   Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me,   for I have come here from God.   I have not come on my own;   God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil,   and you want to carry out your father’s desires.   He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth,   you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says.   The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

Jesus’ Claims About Himself

48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan   and demon-possessed?”

49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself;   but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”

52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed!   Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham?   He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself,   my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him,   I know him.   If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham   rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it   and was glad.”

57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born,   I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him,   but Jesus hid himself,   slipping away from the temple grounds.

10 Comments Add yours

  1. Reggie says:

    Wow!!!! Just the thought of James Earl Jones reading the New Testament is powerful as all get out.

    1. Anna Renee says:

      Let me tell you brother, he is practicing excellence in his reading of the New Testament. His breathing is measured; his timbre is perfect; his pronunciation is flawless, (he’s reading KJV). His approach to the reading reminds me of a long distance runner going the distance and winning the gold! In other words, it indeed is powerful as all get out!

  2. Lin says:

    This was pretty deep, A.M. It’s easy to see how Jesus may have appeared to be a loon to those who would not take his words, claims and identity seriously. Faith asks that we go outside of logic, & to believe wholeheartedly w/ our hearts & spirits. Almost 2000 years later, you see others stepping forth, proclaiming things, feigning holy associations & making heavenly promises that require nothing more than blind faith, vulnerability & ample sips of Kool-Aid. Perhaps it depends upon a Miracle or two, a Revelation, a Healing before witnesses to make true believers out of doubting Thomases. Or else any madman can make claims of being godlike & only feeble-minded desperate fools will buy into his hype.

    *ponder*

    One.

    1. kekemichel says:

      The truth of the matter–God is all! That means that we are God manifested. However, the masses can not and DO NOT accept that truth because they worship the Lower Self for multifarious reasons.

      Blessings to you and visit and comment on my blog http://www.BlackNouveauWoman.wordpress.com Thanks!
      ~KeKeMichel

    2. Anna Renee says:

      @Lin That’s what’s so scary, that Jesus expects you to trust him based on true faith. But then he does say that those who are of God hears his voice.

  3. kekemichel says:

    When we read about Jesus Christ and the Jews/Pharisees, line 23 explains why there was conflict, and why today there is conflict–You are from below, and I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I was taught that within each of us there is the Higher Self and the Lower Self. Because Jesus Christ is the right hand of The Creator, God, He operates from the Higher Self and is not of the world.

    Interestingly, while God is the Creator of all, He is not the Father of All. Those Jews/Pharisees acknowledged the Lower Self and did not acknowledge God as their Father, in line 43, Jesus Christ actually makes reference, “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires.” God is both Creator and Father to Jesus Christ because of their genuine relationship. It is all about having a real relationship.

    Also, this narrative (lines 52 and 53) shows how that those Jews/Pharisees put all their trust, faith, and belief in their religious progenitors (e.g. Abraham, and the prophets). I have witnessed the same thing in my lifetime–people revering humans who are “leaders” in religion more than they revere God; and, it is rather disgusting. They have more of a love and relationship with those religious leaders more so than God. I think leaders have a lot to do with that, meaning they need to literally and constantly tell the people–we must only revere God and Jesus Christ, and no one else.

    There is another subtle message/teaching, especially starting from line 55 onward–Jesus Christ said, “I know him and obey his word!” When you know God as the Father and obey His word–He reveals to you the secret meanings of life and give you spiritual insight and revelations that are not privy to the carnal base mind. For example, lines 56-57 references when Jesus Christ talked about Abraham rejoiced at seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” Well those based mined Jews/Pharisees could not comprehend it; they lacked the ultimate knowing that God is all and Jesus Christ is God Manifested and so were they, but they missed the boat. Ignorance is the worst poverty and is rather disgusting.

    Thank you for sharing Sis. I truly enjoyed this post!

    Visit my blog http://www.BlackNouveauWoman.wordpress.com and comment on my latest posts!
    ~KeKeMichel

    1. Anna Renee says:

      Preach Keke!

      What’s interesting is that even if we are operating from the lower self, we still have hope if we gather our wits about us and humble ourselves. It all pivots on the humbling. Once we humble ourselves, then we are in a position to receive heavenly training to awaken the higher self, and begin our journey toward Christ inside of us, the hope of glory Colossians 1:27.

      Without the humbling of self, you simply can’t start this journey. I love the scripture that says, Yes I believe, help my unbelief – Mark 9:24

  4. Anybody who has been touched by God will know that Jesus is the truth! His words an actions speak volumes to a world who has ignored his greatness and Gods Mercy. This was so relevant to me in many ways. Because of my trials and the gift that God has granted me. To believe and trust in the unknown is a true gift, but God in his making gave us the gift of incite, and if only we had enough faith and courage we would all see Jesus for who he is.

    1. Anna Renee says:

      It’s baffling to me that some will not accept the gift of Christ Jesus. They won’t allow his love to transform their burdened lives, they won’t allow his truth to change their circumstances. All because he requires something of them, they refuse all the eternal riches he offers.

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